QB Battles: Why Kyle Orton Should Start in Denver, not Tim Tebow


Photo: ESPN

This is non-Titans article but it’s something that’s been bothering me. Most media outlets have been reporting the supposed quarterback battle in Denver and it normally starts with an attention grabbing headline that starts with something like “Tim Tebow may win starting job” or “Tim Tebow’s battle to become starter” and sometimes you get something like “Kyle Orton still capable starter, but Tim Tebow likely candidate”. You’ll notice that I sarcastically placed Tebow’s name in this title as well, but this post is neither pro or anti-Tebow. This is about Orton.

I don’t understand this. Kyle Orton was a sure-fire Pro Bowler until he was injured last season. It’s now like he is a runningback who tore his ACL, come on people. Think!

Orton is 6’4″ and 225 lbs and only 28 years old. What’s wrong with this?

New Head Coach John Fox, formerly of the Carolina Panthers, recently found himself the talk of the town in football news when he said he has “an idea who will start”. Yeah, me too. Kyle Orton will start, if he is on the team. Most outlets are predicting that Orton will be traded for the rumored second-round draft pick to a team that loses out on Eagles backup QB Kevin Kolb. Orton will be the better QB this year and possibly for years to come. So, I wouldn’t call it “losing out”.

The 2010 Season

In 2010, Orton was in the second year of Head Coach Josh McDaniels offense. He knew the system and he had a great WR in Brandon Marshall to throw to. Scratch that, Marshall was traded and Orton was left with scrubs from other teams and Eddie Royal. Royal has had early highs and recent lows while playing in the league. I wouldn’t consider him reliable at this stage but he does represent the possibility of a game-changer. Then, there’s Brandon Lloyd. Lloyd had topped 500 yards receiving in a season twice in his career and not since 2005. Lloyd was entering his 8th season and with Orton as his QB, Lloyd would go on to catch 77 balls for 1,448 yards receiving and 11 TD’s. That’s an 18.8 yards-per-catch average. Lloyd made the Pro Bowl.

In 2010, Orton threw for 3,653 yards, 20 touchdowns and a mere 9 interceptions. That’s great! Do you wanna know the crazy part? He only started 13 games. Orton topped 290 yards passing 8 times. His last game was against the Cardinals and he threw 0 touchdowns and 3 interceptions. It was terrible, but he also got knocked in the side and played with bruised ribs. If you’ve ever had bruised ribs, you would appreciate how hard that was to play football, much less at an NFL level.

In 3 games, Tebow showed promise. He proved that he can play capable. My problem with this whole media craze over Tebow is that Orton played great and is being automatically overlooked due to Tebow being more of a household name and people only thinking with the “what have you done for me lately?” mindset. Why not play Orton another year when he was so good last season? The only answer I know is for trade value. It’s high now and they might get good pick(s) due to that. However, if Orton is on the team, why start Tebow? Orton is still young.

What do yo think?

 

  • willie beamen

    @americaneaglecorp

    Orton only scrambled twice in that jags game

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=300912030&period=4

    3rd and 4 at JAC 45(Shotgun) K.Orton scrambles up the middle to JAX 40 for 5 yards (S.Considine).

    2nd and 10 at JAC 21(Shotgun) K.Orton scrambles up the middle to JAX 14 for 7 yards.

    The first one he converted so you are obviously putting a heckuva of a slant on your story

    The second one he did not convert . But its 2nd and 10 the qb runs for seven yards in the middle of the field and slides what you seem to ignore is the fact that they were in 4 down territory at that point and in the redzone . Why would the QB risk a injury to himself by not sliding ? Why would a QB at that point be thinking We cant get 3 yards on two tries ?

    Whats funny is that you are talking about Ortons leadership in the Jags game but there was a huge delay because of the weather late in the second half of that game. The broncos came out after the delay and tied it up and had momentum .

    On the very next possession yes they both occurred by the same player on the same possession

    1st and 10 at JAC 17D.Garrard pass short right to M.Jones-Drew to JAX 19 for 2 yards (R.McBean). PENALTY on DEN-R.McBean, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced at JAX 19.

    1st and 10 at JAC 34M.Jones-Drew right end to JAX 42 for 8 yards (D.Williams).

    2nd and 2 at JAC 42M.Jones-Drew up the middle to 50 for 8 yards (M.Haggan). PENALTY on DEN-R.McBean, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced at 50.

    and it leads to a td

    How are you even talking about Orton when as hard as it is to win on the road a defensive player doest hose things and basically gifts a home team 7 4th quarter points ?

    Ortons leadership !!! Where is Champ Baileys ? Where is Brian Dawkins ? The defense was the worst in the league the offense wasnt yet all I hear is how bad Orton is in these nitpicked situations .

  • willie beamen

    @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

    McDaniels worked with Brady,Cassell, Orton,and now Bradford the only one that was not a starter prior to working with Mcdaniels is Cassell. Hes a good QB coach and he helped Orton but he didnt make him .

    What would a better QB have done with two rookies starting on the Oline ,no defense ,no running game ,no TE ? What you are talking about just doesnt happen in the NFL ? No good franchise would put there QB in that situation and then shred him to pieces the way the broncos are doing Orton .

    Any other QB who played like Orton was playing pre injury and the talk wouldve been about getting him better protection more weapons improving the defense etc . The goal wouldnt have been to focus solely on the QB . Good franchises just simply do not do that .

    The defense was in the field because it ouldnt get off the field on 3rd downs . It had nothing to do with the offense your just making this stuff up .

    What games did the defense keep us in for a while ? youre crazy dude This is a quote from Joshn Fox

    “Then, he added: “Our defense was horrible. We were 32nd in a league with 32 teams, and that’s what we’ve got to improve right away.”

    and here is another one

    “Offensively, there are actually two or three strengths,” Fox said. “We were 13th in the league in total offense, I think we were seventh in passing and down a little lower in the run game. I think when we balance that a little bit more it will be more conducive to points because it makes you more effective in the red area. I think we’ve got a young offensive line that I think is talented. I think we’ve got a young receiver corps that is talented and I really believe quarterback is a strength. I don’t know who’s going to be that guy yet, but this is as strong one through three that I’ve been with in 23 years of coaching in the National Football League.”

    Again you are simply making up stuff at this point if you think the defense was carrying the team roflmao

    Orton threw to Marshall because Marshalls physical talents allowed him to overcome any limitations that were caused by it being everyones first year in the offense

    and you didnt even know who Brandon Lloyd was last year at this time .

    Ortons range ? Orton was second in the league in td passes over 30 yards and he didnt even play the last 3 games .

    This is what Im talking when fans are basically just making stuff up .

    Broncos fans booed Orton IN PRACTICE before he even took one snap in a live game .

    So the fact is the that broncos fans never even bothered to look and that is how you become the Lions or the Bills .

    Orton is not some HOF qb but Bronos fans are seriously deluded about what it takes to win games in the NFL.

  • bob dukes

    @americaneaglecorp

    Orton only scrambled twice in that jags game

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=300912030&period=4

    3rd and 4 at JAC 45(Shotgun) K.Orton scrambles up the middle to JAX 40 for 5 yards (S.Considine).

    2nd and 10 at JAC 21(Shotgun) K.Orton scrambles up the middle to JAX 14 for 7 yards.

    The first one he converted so you are obviously putting a heckuva of a slant on your story

    The second one he did not convert . But its 2nd and 10 the qb runs for seven yards in the middle of the field and slides what you seem to ignore is the fact that they were in 4 down territory at that point and in the redzone . Why would the QB risk a injury to himself by not sliding ? Why would a QB at that point be thinking We cant get 3 yards on two tries ?

    Whats funny is that you are talking about Ortons leadership in the Jags game but there was a huge delay because of the weather late in the second half of that game. The broncos came out after the delay and tied it up and had momentum .

    On the very next possession yes they both occurred by the same player on the same possession

    1st and 10 at JAC 17D.Garrard pass short right to M.Jones-Drew to JAX 19 for 2 yards (R.McBean). PENALTY on DEN-R.McBean, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced at JAX 19.

    1st and 10 at JAC 34M.Jones-Drew right end to JAX 42 for 8 yards (D.Williams).

    2nd and 2 at JAC 42M.Jones-Drew up the middle to 50 for 8 yards (M.Haggan). PENALTY on DEN-R.McBean, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced at 50.

    and it leads to a td

    How are you even talking about Orton when as hard as it is to win on the road a defensive player doest hose things and basically gifts a home team 7 4th quarter points ?

    Ortons leadership !!! Where is Champ Baileys ? Where is Brian Dawkins ? The defense was the worst in the league the offense wasnt yet all I hear is how bad Orton is in these nitpicked situations .

  • bob dukes

    @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

    McDaniels worked with Brady,Cassell, Orton,and now Bradford the only one that was not a starter prior to working with Mcdaniels is Cassell. Hes a good QB coach and he helped Orton but he didnt make him .

    What would a better QB have done with two rookies starting on the Oline ,no defense ,no running game ,no TE ? What you are talking about just doesnt happen in the NFL ? No good franchise would put there QB in that situation and then shred him to pieces the way the broncos are doing Orton .

    Any other QB who played like Orton was playing pre injury and the talk wouldve been about getting him better protection more weapons improving the defense etc . The goal wouldnt have been to focus solely on the QB . Good franchises just simply do not do that .

    The defense was in the field because it ouldnt get off the field on 3rd downs . It had nothing to do with the offense your just making this stuff up .

    What games did the defense keep us in for a while ? youre crazy dude This is a quote from Joshn Fox

    “Then, he added: “Our defense was horrible. We were 32nd in a league with 32 teams, and that’s what we’ve got to improve right away.”

    and here is another one

    “Offensively, there are actually two or three strengths,” Fox said. “We were 13th in the league in total offense, I think we were seventh in passing and down a little lower in the run game. I think when we balance that a little bit more it will be more conducive to points because it makes you more effective in the red area. I think we’ve got a young offensive line that I think is talented. I think we’ve got a young receiver corps that is talented and I really believe quarterback is a strength. I don’t know who’s going to be that guy yet, but this is as strong one through three that I’ve been with in 23 years of coaching in the National Football League.”

    Again you are simply making up stuff at this point if you think the defense was carrying the team roflmao

    Orton threw to Marshall because Marshalls physical talents allowed him to overcome any limitations that were caused by it being everyones first year in the offense

    and you didnt even know who Brandon Lloyd was last year at this time .

    Ortons range ? Orton was second in the league in td passes over 30 yards and he didnt even play the last 3 games .

    This is what Im talking when fans are basically just making stuff up .

    Broncos fans booed Orton IN PRACTICE before he even took one snap in a live game .

    So the fact is the that broncos fans never even bothered to look and that is how you become the Lions or the Bills .

    Orton is not some HOF qb but Bronos fans are seriously deluded about what it takes to win games in the NFL.

  • Omnyra

    @willie beamen @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

  • Omnyra

    @willie beamen @edetzi@willie

    You’re chock full of assumptions, aren’t you? I watched every freaking game. And saying the defense “kept us in” many games for awhile isn’t the same as saying they “carried the team”. And by the way, a lot of us only knew who Brando Lloyd was after McD went after him. Why would he have mattered before?

    Snapshot in November 2010:

    The broncos were 22nd in the league in 3rd down conversions- 36.6%, 26th in 4th down conversions, and 20th in the red zone. 26 4th qtr possessions with only 4 TD’s and 4 field goals. The first 8 games last year, the offense scored 1 TD in the opening quarter, but Orton was racking up a career year. So what? He can fling the ball up and down the field, but what good are the yards when he struggles at the finish line? I don’t put all the blame on Orton, as I was pretty frustrated with play calling, but he was the most important player on the team and flubbed so many big moments. The Tebow chants rose because we knew what he could do at the goal line and proved it when they finally put him in.

    There were games where the defense made key stops, got turnovers, etc. that coulda momentarily kept it close, even if just for morale. We had an older, injured and inexperienced defense whose efforts occasionally rose above their talents, and the offense occasionally went an entire quarter without a 1st down. I can’t stand pro athletes that are easily demoralized and quit, but it happens. A demoralized defense needing something to fight for. I saw Tebow inspire a team with nothing to gain in the last 2 games of the season.

  • Omnyra

    @willie beamen @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

  • willie beamen

    @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

    Again as i said Broncos fans are out of touch with the reality of todays NFL.

    Scoring and 3rd down conversions percentages all these things are tied to certain basic fundamental principles . You keep saying you dont totally blame orton but yet here you are .

    Field position

    running attack

    TE

    all play important parts in not only scoring but 3rd down conversions .

    You cant go out with a completely one dimensional offense and expect to have much success .in the things that you are talking about .

    Again what you ignoring are basic principles that every good team in the league believe in but in Denver they are ignored because of the fantasy of one man winning games by himself . In todays NFL it simply doesnt work like that .

    You are trying to nitpick a 8 game snapshot while I look at history .

    In 2009 Orton numbers in the 4th quarter were great why ? oh because the defense and running game was better so he didnt have to pass the ball 40+ times a game SIMPLY TO KEEP THE TEAM IN IT EVERY GAME.

    In 2009 the defense wasnt given up 30+ppg so the offense could run the ball more and was more effective at it so that in the 4th quarter when Orton needed to make a play the defense didnt have a chance of knowing which play they would call .

    If Im a DC and I know going into the game that all you are gonna do is throw the ball. By the time I went over film from the first 3-4 games in preparation AND YOU THEN TYROW THE BALL 3O TIMES IN THE FIRST 3 QUARTERS.

    What play do you think you could call in 4th quarter that could fool defene who is in strictly pass defense mode by now when I know that you dont have a RB or TE thats threat at this point ?

    Broncos fans want the results that a complete offense provides without providing Orton with a the weapons that a complete offense should have.

    Tebow provided someone who could run the ball in so as I said broncos fans blamed Orton for the team not being able to run the ball in .?

    When did the defense make key stops ?

    When did it get key turnovers ?

    When did it keep it momentarily close ?

    prior to game 12 ?

    again you are just making stuff up .

    I posted a quote of the new coach saying last years defense was horrible but yet you are telling us that it was the offenses fault ?

    It no coincidence that when I look at the top of rankings for redzone scoring and 3rd down conversions that teams with most complete offenses are at the top AS IT SHOULD BE .

    Saying the Broncos should be there and that they are not is solely the Qbs fault is wrong and ridiculous and says that broncos fans are out of touch.

    Could Orton do better ? Yes but under the circumstances better for Orton would be him playing damn near perfect and there is not a player in the NFL that is perfect .

    The numbers show that Orton in the past has performed much better in the 4th quarter than he did last year . The reasons are quite obvious but a lot of Broncos fans would simply like to ignore that .

    I saw Tebow go 1-2 the last 3 games with the lone win coming on a tipped ball by the defense against the Texans while they were setting up the game winning field goal .

    Broncos fans are basically rewriting what happened last season to justify what they are doing to Orton and they are wrong .

  • Omnyra

    @willie beamen @edetzi@willie

    You’re chock full of assumptions, aren’t you? I watched every freaking game. And saying the defense “kept us in” many games for awhile isn’t the same as saying they “carried the team”. And by the way, a lot of us only knew who Brando Lloyd was after McD went after him. Why would he have mattered before?

    Snapshot in November 2010:

    The broncos were 22nd in the league in 3rd down conversions- 36.6%, 26th in 4th down conversions, and 20th in the red zone. 26 4th qtr possessions with only 4 TD’s and 4 field goals. The first 8 games last year, the offense scored 1 TD in the opening quarter, but Orton was racking up a career year. So what? He can fling the ball up and down the field, but what good are the yards when he struggles at the finish line? I don’t put all the blame on Orton, as I was pretty frustrated with play calling, but he was the most important player on the team and flubbed so many big moments. The Tebow chants rose because we knew what he could do at the goal line and proved it when they finally put him in.

    There were games where the defense made key stops, got turnovers, etc. that coulda momentarily kept it close, even if just for morale. We had an older, injured and inexperienced defense whose efforts occasionally rose above their talents, and the offense occasionally went an entire quarter without a 1st down. I can’t stand pro athletes that are easily demoralized and quit, but it happens. A demoralized defense needing something to fight for. I saw Tebow inspire a team with nothing to gain in the last 2 games of the season.

  • bob dukes

    @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

    Again as i said Broncos fans are out of touch with the reality of todays NFL.

    Scoring and 3rd down conversions percentages all these things are tied to certain basic fundamental principles . You keep saying you dont totally blame orton but yet here you are .

    Field position

    running attack

    TE

    all play important parts in not only scoring but 3rd down conversions .

    You cant go out with a completely one dimensional offense and expect to have much success .in the things that you are talking about .

    Again what you ignoring are basic principles that every good team in the league believe in but in Denver they are ignored because of the fantasy of one man winning games by himself . In todays NFL it simply doesnt work like that .

    You are trying to nitpick a 8 game snapshot while I look at history .

    In 2009 Orton numbers in the 4th quarter were great why ? oh because the defense and running game was better so he didnt have to pass the ball 40+ times a game SIMPLY TO KEEP THE TEAM IN IT EVERY GAME.

    In 2009 the defense wasnt given up 30+ppg so the offense could run the ball more and was more effective at it so that in the 4th quarter when Orton needed to make a play the defense didnt have a chance of knowing which play they would call .

    If Im a DC and I know going into the game that all you are gonna do is throw the ball. By the time I went over film from the first 3-4 games in preparation AND YOU THEN TYROW THE BALL 3O TIMES IN THE FIRST 3 QUARTERS.

    What play do you think you could call in 4th quarter that could fool defene who is in strictly pass defense mode by now when I know that you dont have a RB or TE thats threat at this point ?

    Broncos fans want the results that a complete offense provides without providing Orton with a the weapons that a complete offense should have.

    Tebow provided someone who could run the ball in so as I said broncos fans blamed Orton for the team not being able to run the ball in .?

    When did the defense make key stops ?

    When did it get key turnovers ?

    When did it keep it momentarily close ?

    prior to game 12 ?

    again you are just making stuff up .

    I posted a quote of the new coach saying last years defense was horrible but yet you are telling us that it was the offenses fault ?

    It no coincidence that when I look at the top of rankings for redzone scoring and 3rd down conversions that teams with most complete offenses are at the top AS IT SHOULD BE .

    Saying the Broncos should be there and that they are not is solely the Qbs fault is wrong and ridiculous and says that broncos fans are out of touch.

    Could Orton do better ? Yes but under the circumstances better for Orton would be him playing damn near perfect and there is not a player in the NFL that is perfect .

    The numbers show that Orton in the past has performed much better in the 4th quarter than he did last year . The reasons are quite obvious but a lot of Broncos fans would simply like to ignore that .

    I saw Tebow go 1-2 the last 3 games with the lone win coming on a tipped ball by the defense against the Texans while they were setting up the game winning field goal .

    Broncos fans are basically rewriting what happened last season to justify what they are doing to Orton and they are wrong .

  • Omnyra

    @willie beamen @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

    I’m going to take the path of least resistance and let you think you won this argument so maybe you’ll move on and take your extensive diatribes and rude comments about Bronco fans with you. You must be a fan of a school who got blown away by the Gators, or an Orton sibling. He’s lame! And his ankles seem to have known that already as they went out on him in both Chi and Denver, and they’ll fail him again. I didn’t read your quotes from coaches, as there are as many quotes from coaches, commentators and others who’ve been in the league for ages that rightfully label Orton the “game manager” that he is. When Orton leaves Denver, your loyalties can follow him to wherever he lands and you can shake your pom poms till your elbows wear out. I wish you both Happy Trails!

  • willie beamen

    @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

    Sorry Im afan of common sense not the nitpicking of one plaeers game to divert attentyions away from the failings of particlar franchise to do wwhat it needs to do to win .

    If orton is a “game manager why the heck are you nitpikcing everything hes done since been in Denver .

    You and other fans actually think that you had a good team and Orton drug it down or why else would you be nitpicking a “game manager “. Apparently you and some other fans think we had a team capable of winning or why else would you nitpick a Qb you feel is a “game manager” for not MANAGING A TEAM WITH NO DEFENSE OR RUNNING GAME ?

    As I said a good portion of the fanbase is out of touch with the NFL of today .

    I know you didnt read teh quotes though because its much easier just to make stuff up and please post a quote from someone who with all thats gone wrong in Denver blames Orton for last year ? The majority of NFL people consider the QB position to be the least of the Broncos problems and I have yet to see anyone claim that Orton is not a QB you can win with.

    Id love to see you post a quote from anyone claiming Orton is whats wrong with the Broncos .

    No QB in Broncos team history has ever won without a defense AND running game why should expectations of Orton be any different . Again only you and a select few believe this type of nonsense .

    In fact there is no precedence in NFL history for a successful nfl qb to have so many things working against him and to be graded as if playing with a all star team .

  • Omnyra

    @willie beamen @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

    I’m going to take the path of least resistance and let you think you won this argument so maybe you’ll move on and take your extensive diatribes and rude comments about Bronco fans with you. You must be a fan of a school who got blown away by the Gators, or an Orton sibling. He’s lame! And his ankles seem to have known that already as they went out on him in both Chi and Denver, and they’ll fail him again. I didn’t read your quotes from coaches, as there are as many quotes from coaches, commentators and others who’ve been in the league for ages that rightfully label Orton the “game manager” that he is. When Orton leaves Denver, your loyalties can follow him to wherever he lands and you can shake your pom poms till your elbows wear out. I wish you both Happy Trails!

  • bob dukes

    @Omnyra @edetzi@willie

    Sorry Im afan of common sense not the nitpicking of one plaeers game to divert attentyions away from the failings of particlar franchise to do wwhat it needs to do to win .

    If orton is a “game manager why the heck are you nitpikcing everything hes done since been in Denver .

    You and other fans actually think that you had a good team and Orton drug it down or why else would you be nitpicking a “game manager “. Apparently you and some other fans think we had a team capable of winning or why else would you nitpick a Qb you feel is a “game manager” for not MANAGING A TEAM WITH NO DEFENSE OR RUNNING GAME ?

    As I said a good portion of the fanbase is out of touch with the NFL of today .

    I know you didnt read teh quotes though because its much easier just to make stuff up and please post a quote from someone who with all thats gone wrong in Denver blames Orton for last year ? The majority of NFL people consider the QB position to be the least of the Broncos problems and I have yet to see anyone claim that Orton is not a QB you can win with.

    Id love to see you post a quote from anyone claiming Orton is whats wrong with the Broncos .

    No QB in Broncos team history has ever won without a defense AND running game why should expectations of Orton be any different . Again only you and a select few believe this type of nonsense .

    In fact there is no precedence in NFL history for a successful nfl qb to have so many things working against him and to be graded as if playing with a all star team .